halloumi at NATO?

NATO would be well served with Cyprus as a member. The failure with Makarios was intricately linked to the geo-political activity of the moment...but times have changed.

In essence, I believe that the way forward for us, is the supermilitarisation of the island. To demilitarise, we must become an island that serves the interests of many, so that the interest of one, Turkey, is not merely diluted, but satisfied, its security assured.

That is the point of my musings with a Treaty of Defense, between the two adversaries, the Republic of Cyprus and Turkey, without which their will be more costly and detrimental affects on both, and to Mankind in general.

Like the deer and the lion, they lay down together, when their bellies are full, or when there is fire. It is not hard to imagine that Turkey will find in Greece a people not unlike themselves. The will to better ourselves is universal, the world has become a very small place.

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Cyprus: three goverments, One capital and Free.

the liberator...has passed

Thank-you chapfallen, your comments are to the point, you make me laugh.
...I said two hundred years from now, but for now I will say, my sentiments exactly.

To compare Denktash to Ecevit is to compare the wily sparrow to the crow. But no one, has obstructed the UN in its attempts at resolution of our problem more, than Denktash. This is a credit to him, and I hope that soon, the border he chose to open will become the gateways to the end of this impasse. When civilians, mobile, enjoy the island, for all it has to give, it will be, normal.

Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots are surely the same resilient people that they were over two hundred years ago, a common ground will be found where they stand united as equals.

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Cyprus: three goverments, One capital and Free.

...What do Greek Cypriots really want?...

I think both communities must take a closer look at themselves because neither gives a minority any rights, or recognition. Anyone can see that neither has the Constitutional where with all to be inclusive.

The reform, being comprehensive must be unlike the plans which have failed, and reasoned to be bi-zonal, not divided in two, and bi-communal, not two communities. With goodwill, the compassion to know what this means denies the will of each Nation as adversaries and compels them to act as people.

I say we need three governments, and one capital. Bi-zonal; having many parts, and bi-communal; together as equals, and apart.

Call me a Greek Cypriot, and this is what I want.


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Cyprus: three goverments, One capital and Free.

the best solution is

So here we are again... the best solution is...

Gotta think of the settlers, ...sorry you can't just blow them away.

There are tens of thousands, if not a hundred thousand, (of us) who still have a desire to return, to care for, and be close to their land, even if it means displacement after having waited for fifty to some thirty years.

The right of return cannot be ignored either and for the same reasons.

Mankind all Mankind desire their individual freedom, holding this with the highest esteem: the freedom of movement, expression and association. The Modern World, consists of these elements and a rule of law which extends the responsibility of it defense to society, as a whole, through democratic choice. There is no difference on this island, because all people are equal in this assumption.

A Republic of Cyprus exists. It is maturing to be a country with a high level of socio-economic achievement, even in dysfunction. It is possible to reform its Constitution, and it is necessary, to be in conformity with its membership to the EU, and yet most importantly, to realise a State with its support from the citizenry as a whole.

I see the word enclave twisted on its head, in my Cyprus. In my mind there is a Turkish Cypriot enclave [call it Canton (among several in the south)] right next to Paphos. I see the village of Komi Kebir, an important crossroad for Greek Cypriots, as well. I see our cities, rich, with the meeting, the sights and the smells, of East and West, beyond the imagination of white men or brown men.

What is wrong with these jewels scattered over the island; does it not add to each culture's vitality? Does it not solve the settler's shame, with a home to call their own? Does it not allow for the right of return, as communities? Can it not be a basis to define the word bi-zonal? Fixing the proportions, without moving the border; two territories without splitting the island in two.

There should be a bicameral legislature for our Federal Government: a Lower House of representation by independents, one elected from each riding, ...and an Upper House where there are an equal number of seats, for Turkish Cypriots, as for Greek Cypriots. In this House, Parties campaign, to have elected their representatives, to win the house majority, and to lead. Citizens, each have to choose, one Greek Cypriot representative, and one Turkish Cypriot representative, from two slates. This is bi-communal. If the Lower House fills the seats in the Committees of the (Upper House) Government, then the citizen is assured complete transparency (in this work), Good Government, and a system of Government which can sustain itself.

Add to this mix, two governments: one Greek Cypriot, and one Turkish Cypriot, each with a territory for their jurisdiction, each with their duty to provide for their citizenry an infrastructure, for their daily lives, as communities, and as a people having distinctive qualities, each recognising the rights of their minorities, and each achieving self determination through representation.

And you have an island, to enjoy, and to prosper.

...an example for others torn apart, worth considering.

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Cyprus: three goverments, One capital and Free.

What we learn from the Amish

http://www.talkcyprus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=70519#70519


In church today, the sermon was about the Amish tragedy of last week. Five of their children were murdered most brutally, and yet their first acts as individuals, and as a community was, first, to forgive. The priest told us of the account he read, the mother of the murderer, welcomed to grieve with them, the harmony that comes from the respect of all living things, and the grace to remain, as giving individuals, faithful to their way of life, and the God that they believe in.

Acts of hatred and intolerance are woeful things. We are unable to understand them. We become these things, as weaker individuals, because reason and charity are the choice we have, we were 'given', unique in the system of living things.The Amish may appear fanatical, in this trust, but they are not. They are the example, to which we aspire, in our loftier moments.

In Cyprus, isolated as it is, being an island, we share in the effect of small communities. Thus the denial, which affects us is all the more hurtful. Let us say that this is God's plan, to begin again, but to hold to the blessing of love. You know that my family has suffered greatly with many disappeared. I know that this is true for all of us. I accept, my responsibility, and I respect this loss by the hope to which I apply myself for life's betterment.

The resolution of our impasse will not come from the blame which may never find closure. In our hearts this black void cannot be filled by revenge. Asking yourself what you deserve to get, offers no relief. Asking ourselves what we have to give may lead to the peace and prosperity that is the best state, as well as our desire.

You see, fanaticism, is not necessarily a bad thing. As individuals, it is what we do with it.


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Cyprus: three goverments, One capital and Free.
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The best solution is...?

Who cares about stav's opinion, he takes the road which leads to education,...so be helpful, how do you know that this is not an attempt at dividing those with a similar problem (from a different point of view) and those that will choose to be tolerant and reasoned.

I couldn't care less if this is his opinion, just so long as the hatred that goes with a view like that, is abolished from their being. I do my best not to judge people, I choose to do this even if others choose not to this with me. Greek, Turk, or Taliban, such a person, one who speaks with words that are written have at least something, to learn from.

Stav, don't think of Turkey as the enemy, and you will not need Greece for its defense.

Frankly, those Greeks sold Hellenism out, they failed, because they had been corrupted by their own greed, losing their influence in the regional sphere, losing the US bases, Turkey is the regional power, and the world is a different place, because of their blundering. Greece is the Republic of Cyprus's greatest ally and their influence with our membership into the EU is a great symbol of their support.

Cyprus can do better, however, defending itself, by providing to the 90 million Turks, one-tenth of the distance from Greece, and the greatest threat to their security, an ally, not against Greece, but from the destabilising influences in this world today.

I see the supermilitarisation of the island, as dep says, with our membership in NATO, and as a member of the EU with established links toward its security via Britain already, ...it is possible.

Let's have the nukes on the island, but no one is carrying a gun. Offshore military HQ, for the UN and etc. for lease, if you will. You do know that all the worlds communication traffic crosses on our little island, and that our maritime and banking rival the largest in the world.


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Cyprus: three goverments, One capital and Free.

Cyprus-Turkey Treaty of Defense...?

The debate has been interesting, and most informative, but the discussion should be focused on the military defense of Turkey, and ending the threat that this State senses from the island of Cyprus. The proposal is a Treaty, necessarily requirng the recognition of the Republic of Cyprus, and its sovereignty over all the island.

The reform of its Constitution is desired by the government of the day. However its resolve to maintain for the vast majority, a Grecophonic nature, must be balanced with the desire of Turkish Cypriots for self determination. Divided and isolated from each other, now for almost fifty years, their lives lack free movement, association, and expression. Much of this is unnatural, and there is the great hope that human behaviour is for social-exchange, and that Denktash will be marked as a hero, maybe two hundred years from now, because he took the first step and opened the border.

Turkey has nothing to fear from these people, united and free from subjugation, to direct their own lives toward prosperity. Cypriots are the people who lead in socialisation, for millenia. They are a people who are inclusive, they are peace loving, and they are welcoming. Cyprus, its vital culture, to survive in this Modern world, must be self governing, because strategically it cannot belong to anyone. This gift the world has promised to them. Turkey's foreign affairs, has this issue, and others to resolve.

A Treaty today provides the most powerful regional economy, exchange, with the largest maritime service, their neighbour, both profiting, gaining long term security, stability, and mutual defense. Part of the comprehensive package, toward ending the Cyprus problem, it is a premise that provides a venue, for an international relation, with Turkey as the benefactor from this esteem.

Cypriots can identify themselves as Greek Cypriot or Turkish Cypriot if and only if the Republic of Cyprus, and its government are free from linquistic (ethnic) bias. As an identity, this reformation must reflect their proportional representation and their equality as founding partners, these peoples. A bi-cameral legislature will provide for this need. As individuals, and as Europeans they can expect a government which allows for their individuality and equality.

Greek Cypriots can look back without despair, if they themselves control a government as their Turkish counterpart, requiring three governments, so that their relations as Cypriots, externally are satisfied by one Government, meeting the norms of a higher authority, and internally, having two Governments to represent these people as communities, providing the service these communities desire, sovereign in their territory, as they please.

I think the greatest fear for Turkish Cypriots, is the possibility of being overwhelmed by the "Greekness" of the vast majority of people living on the island. This will soon be replaced by the fear of so many other peoples who find this little island of value to them personally. Ironically both societies will suffer the same fear unless there are suitable provisions made to accomadate having minorities with seperate needs, by their respective National Assemblies.

In 1974, I remember a map, in the newspaper, the island, the line which divides it in two, and little circles scattered here and there, over all its territory, Makarios and Denktash in one of their meetings, during those heady days. Recently, I read a quote from Mr. Papoudopoulos, (sorry for the spelling) the current President of the Republic, from his youth, describing the population of Turkish Cypriots warmly, as a people whose population was scattered like sand, tossed over a map so that the grains would cover its whole surface. Demographic maps, I have seen, prove this sentiment and the reasoning of their proposals.

I do not propose to replicate the past. However, these notions, indeed resolve much of the anxiety, which comes from the Right of Return, and resettlement, for so many, because it has its historical basis. "Cantons", satelite territories, would add to the balance which would be required so that each of the counterparts, Greek and Turkish, has a majority of people who see themselves this way, within their territory for their self-determination. They provide a setting in which all people can demonstrate their commitment toward Basic Human Rights. New communities will be founded, and in others people will return to their homes, as communities. None will lack service as they prefer, nearby; none will lack a choice for their representation, as they desire. Each gain in the diversity this will add to their respective cultures. Most importantly, the reciprocation of respect by these two adversaries, sustains a benefit, which allows for the inclusiveness our Age requires from each one of us as human beings.

Finally, I would like to add, that Turkey must resolve this political issue, to end the prejudice it causes to its own people, and to be in harmony with the rest of the world's States; a Republic of Cyprus, and all its people Cypriots, must exist, without which there is no peace.

the "price" of the future

Two points I would like to add:

1) using current events as an example, the few who are hezbollah, are they the representative Lebanese citizen? We have disscussed EOKA. EOKA A, and B, Grey Wolves etc. and it is clear that the State is not in their support, although the Government at that time acted adversarialy toward their citizens by dividing their identity, into a majority and a minority.

This I believe will be corrected when negociations reach a conclusion, which is simple to understand, and clear, allowing for each citizen to be a founder, with their vote, as equals. The Republic of Cyprus, to exist must accept that their are two (or three, if Maronites are included), founding peoples.

Each has a right to their self determination as peoples, and each has a right to their individuality, when these communities look at themselves as a whole.

A bicameral parliament allows for this representation, and as a people, there is the precedent: the unused communal assembly; allowing two seperate governing bodies for the internal affairs as citizens.

Greek Cypriots must create this body of government for themselves, just as the Turkish Cypriots have done. Turkophone citizens will hav to renounce their fielty to the Turkish State. We must choose, to free ourselves from subjugation, with Goodwill, believing that, for this comparitively short period of time in our history, we were divided.

2) As for compensation, I suggest that "enclaves" is not a dirty word, and with their existence, Turkish Cypriots will become even more vital, and diversified, in their distinctions, with their introduction in "the south", as communities. "Greek" enclaves reciprocally, will help to resolve the important issue for hundreds of thousands, who remain with hope for justice, and of them, many who wish to feel free, and return to their homes.

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Cyprus: three goverments, One capital and Free.

Cyprus-Turkey Treaty of Defense...?

I have considered the importance of Cyprus to the Turkish State. Militarily, it provides substantial consideration toward Turkey's defence.

Significantly, the Cypriot Maritime is one of the largest, and one of the best. Strategically, this traffic involves a significant contribution to the social-exchange from which wealth (and power) is acquired. Two elements play into the Turkish sphere: recognition of the Republic of Cyprus, and the need for Turkey to promote its inclusive nature.

Without the political solution, in Cyprus, that reunites a people of different origins, there will be no demonstration of Turkey's abilities at promoting goodwill. My view is that the repopulation of the island is primordial. It is a clear and easy understand act as correcting a wrong. It is possible because the grain of this idea evolved from the words of its current President a long time ago. He saw the island thus; it's population of Turkish Cypriots scattered over the island like sand tossed over its map.

I lived in a "mixed village", a description I deplore, against our equality as people toward respect, and our service to our land. Taken from hundreds of thousands this dignity. The suffering of Turcophones and the creation of enclaves were the catalyst for the Turkish Cypriot identity, with a need for there own pursuit of self-determination. However, the Grecophone population being much larger, had an element of fanatics, terrorists, who were large enough to endure their failed attemps for ENOSIS, to become an element of constant threat to the government and the State, until 1974, with the result being the impasse that has gone on until today.

My village. its people meet at least once a year, refugees in our own land. It leads me to imagine that whole communities will want to return together.

This is the threat, I believe Turkish Cypriots fear the most.

One standing agreement has been sustained over these years. That is the BBF: Bizonal Bicommunal Federation. Geographically, it will require changes to the present frontier, with a consequence that allows for the incidence of hardship. Without a political solution the instability caused by adversarial relations will preoccupy their affairs internally, leaving these people weakened in their external affairs.

My solution involves the creation of enclaves, if you will. Like jewels they will be scattered over the whole island. The existing frontier can remain the same, and for each comminity there is an enrichment of their diversity. If Greek Cypriots would create for themselves a government like that of the Turkish Cypriots, they would become the counterparts in their citizenry's efforts at betterment, for themselves. Both of these states will require a reciprocating nature, toward minority populations.

The Republic of Cyprus, would be free from the bias it suffers today because it will be inclusive, sovereign in the affairs of all its people as individuals, their representative toward the rest of the world, within the Family of Man. Its Parliament can be bi-cameral, to reflect the nature of the population, proportionally, and as equal founding partners.

It is possible to sign a Treaty of Defense with a State that is recognised...and in the Cypriot imbroglio this is a balance that must be made.

Political Tendencies Of Turkish Cypriots

Language with culture is an internal manner of the State.
The exclusivity we enjoyed being "Greek" or being "Turkish", in isolation, has evolved to become but a facet of our modern lives. Yet un-naturally isolated from each other, we face our inclusion in an organised European political sphere, conflicted.

When we appreciate our need for representation as a sovereign people, individuals, as equals in our abilities, and as founding partners, our representation externally will be welcoming to the nations we serve with.

I have suggested a geographic (jewels, the Cantons, scattered across the whole island), and a political framework which allows for our tremendous growth, as a crossroad between three continents, as well as providing for the Humanitarian needs of our situation. It allows for the resettlement of tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people, as migrants or as communities, who have, all these years, lived in an unending limbo, without disrupting the fabric of these two communities.

Our future in Europe now depends on our abilities in competition with other states to evolve from two homogenous populations, to a confluence of people.

In my mind Turkish Cypriots have shown themselves to be prepared to accept a unified state, toward maximising their position internationally. However, it is still necessary for "Greek Cypriots" to recogonise that their identity, as a community, needs its expression, like their counterparts, to be a reflection of their unity, another side of the same coin, if you will, out side the context of the Republic of Cyprus, so that while we live within our own communities, it is free to serve in our defense as individuals.

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Cyprus: three goverments, One capital and Free.

injustice

Easy RudeGal, Cypriot got your craw by falling into the writer's bane, with a generalsing opinion, to make his point. What I believe he is saying is that neither party takes the view that Cypriots suffer many forms of injustice, seeking freedom from their subjugation, they are learning little from each other. Neither is building on an alliance, for cooperation, against injustice, in recognition of each others pain, and in concordance, against the intolerant, and their rhetoric, which keeps us, as people, in isolation, divided from each other.

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Cyprus: three goverments, One capital and Free.

Embargo: Brussels protest

Cyprus bicommunal discussion and chat forum : Brussels protest:

"Rude Gal, please don't forget, Cypriots have been isolated from each other, but half this population is old enough to remember a way of life far dearer. We call ourselves Cypriot, we are all people, even though we are identified, or forced to indentify ourselves as Turcophone or Grecophone.

There is nothing wrong with having great pride in your heritage, but for both of us this has grown over several hundred years, successfully. As a community we are the repository for Mankind, with roots dating back to Neolithic times. Our future, and our duty to this planet are far greater, than the adversarial competition which has been promoted for our consumption all these years.

Basic Human Rights can not be ignored. Even if it causes more suffering, it is the cost of our freedom. Turcophones and Grecophones deserve to call each other, founders of our Nation. Each has a right from this State to expect that their Individual Rights are defended without hesitation.

Where communities of people are concerned, self-determination is essential. Minority rights in either case are also essential. If this commitment is done through one or three govenments, is not that important. Most important, is that the normalacy of living without troops do divide us, can be realised.

Rude Gal, I cannot tell you how much I wish to return to my village (which is 'mixed'). I cannot tell you how much will be lost, if I cannot say once again, I am Cypriot.
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Cyprus: three goverments, One capital and Free."

STAGNATION

Cyprus bicommunal discussion and chat forum : STAGNATION:

"What is hard to understand?.... at present there are two governing authorities.

By adding a 'Greek' authority, that mirrors its northern component the political issue will be resolved, because both 'communities' will have self-determination.

The State, (Republic of Cyprus), will have the necessary credibility, that it lacks at present, because it will not be seen to follow exclusively the will of the vast component we call 'Greek'. It will be sovereign, in defending our Individual Rights, and it will represent our will as a people.


Quote:
Please imagine the island as it is today.
Take 12-14 spots, of various sizes, and scatter them over the island.

In my mind there are at least five in the south, and seven in the north.

This is the geographic solution to our problems with resetllement of "the many" who will be displaced, regardless.

And it guarantees the autonomy of the territories which surround these spots.

Your comments please....
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Cyprus: three goverments, One capital and Free.

Cyprus, France and Austria play with Turkeys accession.

Cyprus Problem:

"To be fair,one cannot discount the thirty years of Denktash, in 'blaming' the impasse, today, on TPap. It is a solid indication that the will of the Turkophone population is for Europeanisation, and unification, with their agreement to the Annan Plan.

I believe the plan was rejected by 'Greeks', because it was unclear. Certainly the fact that no one had the time to even read it, played a factor in peoples' minds.

Since I am a Cypriot, I know that time is smelled, breathed in with the dust.

Being a Cypriot, I have the patience, to tend the land, to watch things grow, to know that beyond my life, these living things remain, to be tended by others of my blood, who have turned to the ages.

What is right is right. Cypriots, although it seems they are a minority, in the pool whose interest is this geographic space, have been steadfast on this issue: Their right to be in possession of their own land. I hope for their success because the histrionics of 'Greeks' and 'Turks' are greatly sullied by their recent exploits here.

Turkey will face a great deal of resistance because its policies are not favouring their population's individuality, nor their rights toward the expression of this will, fast enough. It will be seen to be against embracing change if it is not forthcoming on what was already agreed to.

Denktash was and still is an advocate for Turkish policy, Turkish speaking Cypriots remain isolated in this sphere. Without their contribution in the Republic as a State, all Cypriots are subject to instability and exploitation.
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Cyprus: three goverments, One capital and Free."

Land Use, occupation and ownership.

Cyprus bicommunal discussion and chat forum : Detain Me Next Time Too:



Cyprus will become a multi ethnic community, even if it continues with its impasse.

Kifeas has a point. Under any other circumstance, in any other country, the Turcophone people would be a minority, with such due consideration, the limit of the States generousity.

However, Cyprus was, and still remains an experiment in geo-politics. Other countries, who gained their sovereignty, immediately following our own, are in worse shape, with their populations facing horrible suffering from the effects of indebtedness, and warfare. I like to think that the last thirty years have been peaceful, because that is our nature. The UN is far less successful elsewhere, while Turkey may have a great military tradition, it is not as refined as a country like Israel.

The "Greekness" of things is normal, so too the "Turkishness" of the island dwellers. Interestingly, even in this Forum, there is the warm exchange of this understanding, even with the ultimate isolation of these two communities from each other. What will be the difference if your neighbours origins are Russian, English, Asian, or Cypriot. All people crave their liberty. They unite in Government to put order to this desire for self determination, and good government is sovereign in protecting these basic rights.

A Greek or a Turk may be at odds over this territory, which they both seek toward exploiting its wealth. But in the case of Cyprus, we have allowed this personal identity to take a place in the nature of our governance.

The original experiment was for a State, and a bi-communal body which provided to each community the opportunity to provide for themselves the services they had a right to. The experiment failed, and its failing was in no small part caused by the Nationalistic ambition of those who had not yet realised the value of their opportunity for an expression which was unique, distinctive, and diverse, as it was their own.

This is not an issue of whether people who are Turcophone want or don't want to live with Grecophones. It is a question of what is right, and what sustains the betterment of the Human Condition. Truly, we the living will suffer whatever the change, or we will suffer waiting. In sacrifice, I ask, what stops us from uniting as a people, except the bond we have to our personal identity as "Turks" or "Greeks". Are we not Human?

So we can argue amongst ourselves the fine details, but if we stand divided, it is at our own peril.

Can the island be repopulated, as I have proposed in other threads?
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Cyprus: three goverments, One capital and Free.

General Tolon: Cyprus is a non-sinking aircraft carrier

Cyprus is a non-sinking aircraft carrier

"Whoever controls Cyprus controls the world" , Gen.TOLON

so... is it the supermilitarisation of Cyprus?

What was that movie?..."Fail Safe", made in the '60's, I think. Have you seen it? Couldn't the little island be Cyprus?

Turkey and USA are allies, both are or have been responsible for "illegal" aggression, (art.2; UN chart.), against other Nations, in war. Israel and Turkey, receive the brunt of America's military largesse, through funding. America and Britain, to a lesser degree, fund their enemies.

Turkey: "Little America", I think so. "Regional Peace Keeper", only a wish; without the recognition that Cyprus is a Sovereign State, with a people.

Either these Supra-Powers, enjoy a state of security that is unstable, or the matter is solved by agreement where all people acknowledge, their needs are met, and in cooperation there is progress, toward their betterment.

The island, therefore, cannot be de-militarised in the foreseeable future. Cypriots, at best, can have a say on how the military is configured, in cooperation with the other interlocutors.

Regional security is obtained with an agreement between Turkey and Cyprus, an alliance which would form a counterbalance to the demands from NATO, Britain and Greece.

In the simplest terms, Treaty of Defense= recognition Republic of Cyprus.

Accepting, and perhaps marketing our strategic position, in this manner we are providing an "Off-shore" service to other States, for our Neutrality, and Good Governance, toward their needs, which serves our purpose, for safety and Independence, as well.

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Cyprus: three goverments, One capital and Free.

'The Cypriot'

Cyprus bicommunal discussion and chat forum : 'The Cypriot'

Please, read this novel approach. I am truly enjoying it.

Cyprus bicommunal discussion and chat forum : Just let refugees stay where they are

Talk Cyprus bicommunal discussion and chat forum : Just let refugees stay where they are:

"It is the issue of heritage, as you say, it is sold to us and we buy it as a commodity, with the power to change it's substance, our good governance, and our free will, is what we desire, as a product.

I don't know if someone will disagree with me, but I think our respect toward the displaced and to the dead, requires a settlement that demonstrates our best intentions as people.

I believe the repopulation of the island is feasable. We can create municipllities and suburbs which when placed island wide, provide for the character of one community or the other, as a majority, within these townships, serviced by their own comunity, like Cantons, they would essentially cover the two communal states.

More of the displaced will be able to return as communities, in an organised fashion, others will want to go to create roots in new settlements, as well as resettleing territory lost in the 60's.

Whatever the solution, with free movement, there will be minorities, in either territory, who will want recognition, using this to their advantage, in either state, when governments are split evenly.

Whatever the result, the needs of Cypriots are far more complex, as no solution has been found, and the adversarial system we have, has required our patience for so long.
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Cyprus: three goverments, One capital and Free"

Cyprus bicommunal discussion and chat forum : CYPRUS-TURKEY TREATY OF DEFENSE

Cyprus bicommunal discussion and chat forum : CYPRUS-TURKEY TREATY OF DEFENSE

Consider, Turkey needs from Cyprus, more than anything, its own military presence on the island for its own defence.

As a partner, in defense, it would be obliged to protect the interest of the Cypriot Maritime, over its own frontier. It must hold the number of troops to a specified number, but neither can any number of troops, stationed on the island change, without its consent. Essentially, both Cyprus and Turkey benefit from better security, with the island's de-militarisation, and the PR that Turkey will gain worldwide will far outweigh the loss of having to recognise a state called the Republic of Cyprus, which is no longer divided, a Human Rights achievement held in high esteem, because the RoR is respected, in a manner which repopulates the entire island suitably, a vision to create even greater prosperity, with consideration toward those affected.

Alot of if's, but the impasse ends when there is recognition of what already is recognised by the rest of the world, the Republic of Cyprus, with its reformation. Turkey can keep the island divided but it cannot escape its responsibilities toward the Rule of Law, in or out of the EU.

Cyprus bicommunal discussion and chat forum : Minority Status for Turkish Cypriot

Cyprus bicommunal discussion and chat forum : Minority Status for Turkish Cypriot

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:50 am Post subject:

Having read the thread again, I find the idea of minority status interesting, although I never thought that it had any advantage. Still, it is a hard sell.

People want self-determination anywhere. Nations which are forthcoming in this vain, are stronger, show their tolerance and are inclusive, addressing an important need. In our context, a bureaucracy, and a government, has been formed, which potentially provides an easy solution to the problems specifically in Cyprus, the "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus"; if the Greek community accepts to create a government which is equal to it.

The "Republic of Cyprus" needs to evolve, free from ethnic, or communal priorities. It is our identity, as a people to the EU, and to the rest of the world. A Greek community can have its minority, as the Turkish majority will convey to its minority, rights, but our central government, should be superior, with the ability to protect all the citizens equally, without compromise as individuals.

Cyprus bicommunal discussion and chat forum : GNOSIS:Heading toward a new political frontier

Cyprus bicommunal discussion and chat forum : GNOSIS:Heading toward a new political frontier


Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:37 am Post subject: GNOSIS:Heading toward a new political frontier

Greetings, fellow witnesses, and welcome to the foundation of a new political movement in Cyprus. My name, you all know, and I come to you as the gatekeeper, your humble servant. Ask me a question and the answer will be found, together. Imagine a world, and I will seek better, until there is nothing left, one choice, where we are free. I know only one thing for sure: that there are cycles far greater than my understanding, and from what I can reason, we return, from where we came, born on this planet, and to die; well, at best. If you are like minded, and you understand the first philosophical premise of mankind, then I ask you to support me, and to join me. If you do not, please ask me a question.

Cyprus bicommunal discussion and chat forum : Do You Think That Eventually Cyprus Will Reunite?

Cyprus bicommunal discussion and chat forum : Do You Think That Eventually Cyprus Will Reunite?

I will vote that Cyprus unites, and I was unsure before reading the thread. The point being, that our geographic location, its strategic importance to Europe, is absolute, and the EU will realize, as well, how important it is to have Cyprus as a partner, when Turkey, signifys a contrary intent, in its own affairs.

Cyprus bicommunal discussion and chat forum : I Have Found the Best Solution to Cyprus problem:At Last!

Cyprus bicommunal discussion and chat forum : I Have Found the Best Solution to Cyprus problem:At Last!:



"Xenos, what does this have to do with anyone else on the forum, and I am surprised, from a gentleman like you. Kefias said something Honourable, what's your problem, why can't it sit, call him a liar if he offends, but give us a reason to think better of thread at hand. Thanks

Greece and Turkey should allocate land on their beachfronts for these expats, since their support is our misery, this should be the consequence.

Respectfully, I ask you, Mr. K, you are a Cypriot, do you prefer, Cypriot, or is Greek Cypriot, or Cypriot of Greek origin, more suitable. Just to be clear, since so many have stated the same.

Personally I like 5 flags, and with the EU makes six. I want a Quartier which is wildly Turkish, way down south in Paphos. I want the town of Komi Kebir to be Greek speaking. This way I am Cypriot, and Grecophone, equal member in the European Union.

I still say that Greeks of Cypriot origin, or Turks of Cypriot origin, as well as Cypriots need one identity, inviolate, sovereign, and supreme, to protect their rights, in one government.

That Government already exists, but ethnicity is not used as a balance, equally represented, and bi-communal. It is clear, the Greek speaking community lacks a level of government, and they need their own flag, without representation equal to their counterpart, the Republic cannot occupy its efforts toward protecting the rights of all its citizens, as well as the governance we need as one people, ie cash, passport, health card, etc.

Then it is heartening, we agree, Cyprus is something all of us can be proud of, Cypriots are from Cyprus.

Can Cypriots be heard?"

Cyprus bicommunal discussion and chat forum : British Bases/1974

Cyprus bicommunal discussion and chat forum : British Bases/1974


Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject:

I beleive we all know the expression, "unsinkable aircaft carrier". All of us, I believe, know that the interests of all the interlocutors, then, as it is now, are best served by a divided island, in a state, where the island dwellers stay divided, to represent not each other, but only their own interests.

Cypriots, a people who have survived millenia, did not survive the wrong, originally thwarted by Makarios with his change of view, and the resulting, realisation of the Republic of Cyprus in 1960, a sovereign state representing all its citizens.

Hmm.. Moose, you raise an interesting point, Turkey and Greece, as well as England signed that Constitution as well. Therefore, having learned that there is a value to all people in protecting their Patrimony, I suggest that this Constitution is more blantantly disregarded than respected because the natural inclination to show a bias for selfish reasons, still outways the more important, and more challenging principal of respect for our Human Rights, as a Family of Man, with acts for its betterment.

Who is the victim, ourselves, evey single person on this planet, if we allow Cypriots to be forgotten, by ignoring their peaceful existence, before thay were divided to suit the needs of other National entities, into Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots, rather than Cypriots who are Turcophone or Grecophone, with different needs, but sharing the same principals, that all people share everywhere equally.

Cyprus bicommunal discussion and chat forum : Agreeing the History of Cyprus

Cyprus bicommunal discussion and chat forum : Agreeing the History of Cyprus



brother wrote:

Dhavlos wrote:
yeh, in greek, Greek Cypriot dont call themselves 'ellinokibreoi/greekcypriots'...they just call themselves 'kibreoi/cypriots'... so really it is just the english language that makes us look more divided

Blame the brits again

Historically, there is more to the truth in you humour. Britain is famous as the colonial power that was best able at ruling by dividing. Turkey, I might add is famous for its ability to overwhelm, and they are the most capable at delaying for generations any alteration to their affects. Cyprus, has a body of people who are identified as Cypriots because they are indigenous to the island, and that predates the modern concept of Nation or of Religion. It is only in recent times, not seventy years ago that these people had, as an opportunity, the right to their own sovereignty. For whatever reason, the interlocutors have reasons of their own, which put at risk, this valuable and long sustaining culture. We call ourselves Greek and Turk, although Grecophone or Turcophone is more accurate.

Cyprus bicommunal discussion and chat forum : Agreeing the History of Cyprus

Cyprus bicommunal discussion and chat forum : Agreeing the History of Cyprus


Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:02 pm Post subject:

I have avoided discussing religion as a sense of our Cypriotness, but the same memories always come to mind.

When I was a young child, one day, with my aunt in a field of wheat, I saw strangers at a tree. I do not like walking through wheat fields as it grows, because it serves no good purpose to the wheat. "what are those strangers doing there?", I asked, and she told me the story of the tree, and how many of the trees, in that field, were planted by apostles. In my family's fields, and in my village, "how do they know they are there?", but she didn't know, "They say it is written somewhere." This is where I am from, my home, a place where the dust, is the lives of people to our Neolithic past. The point being, the name, 'Komi', is Arabic, this history is older than the village, and that, before the contemporary history, as TPap said recently, like sand cast over the island, no place, without some 'confluence' (as above in the thread), of people.

To be Cypriot, is to have an identity with God, and the greatness of this reverance, has been our ability to celebrate this oneness, together, by accepting that the future, its change, is not stopped, but embraced. This is why the culture we can identify as Cypriot has survived, till now. However in trying to define it then, I believe that Mankind has moved on from the cutting edge of 1960, yet for the same reason, we, as a people, must find a resolution which stands out, and preserves a facet of Humanity, for selfish reasons, it seems, other interlocutors ignore.

Cyprus bicommunal discussion and chat forum : Cyprus threatens use of EU veto

Cyprus bicommunal discussion and chat forum : Cyprus threatens use of EU veto

Eric, you want the recognition of your government as the authority in the territory which you now occupy, correct? I say that after 30 years, it has built up a bureaucracy that has the credibility to direct these tasks. The Republic of Cyprus is a valuable tool to its citizens, (generally), although bi-communal by constitution, it is seen to have a bias. Culturally, the proportions between its citizens are dramatic. For a strong state in Cyprus, I propose a bi-cameral legislature, with the house which leads having an equal number of elected from each community, by party therefore, a majority is found. In National elections, you would vote for one Greek and one Turkish representative, from the same or different Parties to represent you. In this Senate, the Leader of Government is the party leader who has the majority of seats, having the greatest number of both communities for its support. A lower house of representatives is elected by majority and represents the best of each constituency independantly. As their aim as legislators is to make transparent the information the Government has for its policies, they work in commitee so that legislation the Government proposes is vetted by their investigation...there is a veto, and some other details... not all the details are clear, but the idea you see is working for a central government which has a very strong system of checks and balances, so that all of us can expect the best, in all our interests internationally, as a nation. But a GreekAuthority like your own, would have to exist, for this plan which would give each side, culturally, liberty to express themselves to the fullest extent possible and a stake in the central government which is strong because it is equal. I insist that for Cyprus it is very important to look at the resettlement as a whole. Meaning, Turks and Greeks can benefit in the return of land and the establishment of communities in Cantons, so that the diversity of both its cultures, as well as the possibility for growth, improves all our lives with so much vitality. There will be Greeks And Turks working and living everywhere, so too so many others because, after all it is a small island, and except for the cantons they will live as a minority respectively, in one zone or the other with rights as a Cypriot to be served equally, in three languages.

Cyprus bicommunal discussion and chat forum : Residents Immigrants whatever...

Cyprus bicommunal discussion and chat forum : Residents Immigrants whatever...

The numbers are irrelavant, because they will be what they will be, when the people are counted by a body that can maintain its impartiality. And, the population issue is a 'hot button'.

It is fair at this point to call upon the members of the forum to recall the issue as a Human effort, and to remember our responsibility to Mankind, which depends on our ability to find in our dialogue, success that they can emulate.

Whatever the result, it is in our interest to be welcoming to those that are caught up in an imbroglio, that for some, those that are here on our island, has gone on for over thirty years. Obviously, the settlers which Turkey has invited need the very best of our intentions, because they left Turkey, like frontier people anywhere, anything was better than what they had otherwise.

Like it or not, we cannot stand against the future, nor can we always live in fear, it is up to us to embrace the future, beyond the EU, and the Middle East, when Africa is free from sickness and the tyranny of so few. Where ill we be, in the middle of all of this.